What's Samadhi for?

Mindfulness Meditation
#63

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33106]I can try to answer this question, even though this is the first time I’d heard this saying.

I believe it could be referring to what is know in philosophy, as a false dichotomy. This is a black and white type conclusion. For example the question ‘was Jesus the son of god, a prophet, or a fraud?’, would be considered a false dichotomy, because it fails to allow other alternatives, for example jesus could have been a magician, or a regular guy minding his own business, or maybe he never existed at all.

Another example could be the recent threat on this forum called ‘who’s fault’ here http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/whos-fault-6157.html It asked who is at fault for one’s own actions. The individual, or the parents and the environment in which one was exposed to whilst growing up. I answered that it was both, then Surya Deva gave a black and white answer and said it was one’s own fault completely. This is a false dichotomy, as it doesn’t allow any exception to his answer.

You see a lot of false dichotomies in religion and spirituality, because it encourages black and white thinking. In religion, usually once something has been answered, then it no longer needs questioning. If anyone claims to know all the answers, or have a book or a belief system, or even a ‘science’ that holds all the answers, they are presenting a false dichotomy.[/QUOTE]

:stuck_out_tongue:

Yoga is the only Method to get the answers you want.

By yoga I am not speaking of downward dog. Downward Dog has pretty much nothing to do with yoga in terms of its ultimate aim.

#64

[QUOTE=The Scales;33108]Yoga is the only Method to get the answers you want. [/QUOTE]

Perfect example of a false dichotomy!

#65

[QUOTE=YogiAdam;33110]Perfect example of a false dichotomy![/QUOTE]

You only show your lack of understanding.

Keep practicing. You’ll see.

#66

[QUOTE=The Scales;33111]You only show your lack of understanding…[/QUOTE]

Keep telling yourself that.

#67

[QUOTE=The Scales;33111]Keep practicing. You’ll see.[/QUOTE]

You also have a lot of work to do on your ego. You always make these sweeping statements and extraordinary claims. Just chill, and don’t take yourself so seriously. Have a day off yoga. Take a girl out for a nice dinner and a movie. A comedy would be good, and talk to her about mundane, petty things. Use yoga as a way to improve the quality of your life. You don’t need to hide behind yoga. You don’t need to use yoga to convince yourself that you are special. Be happy with who you are, and enjoy the simple things.

#68

From [I]Autobiography of a Yogi[/I] - a popular book.

“Truth is for earnest seekers, not for those of idle curiosity. It is easy to believe when one sees, no soul searchings are then necessary. Supersensual truth is deservedly discovered by those who overcome their natural materialistic skepticism.”

  • Babaji

The End.

#69

I thougt he/she was teasing you. If he/she was serious about it, than of course you are right.

[quote=YogiAdam;33106]I can try to answer this question, even though this is the first time I’d heard this saying.

I believe it could be referring to what is know in philosophy, as a false dichotomy. This is a black and white type conclusion. For example the question ‘was Jesus the son of god, a prophet, or a fraud?’, would be considered a false dichotomy, because it fails to allow other alternatives, for example jesus could have been a magician, or a regular guy minding his own business, or maybe he never existed at all.

Another example could be the recent threat on this forum called ‘who’s fault’ here http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/whos-fault-6157.html It asked who is at fault for one’s own actions. The individual, or the parents and the environment in which one was exposed to whilst growing up. I answered that it was both, then Surya Deva gave a black and white answer and said it was one’s own fault completely. This is a false dichotomy, as it doesn’t allow any exception to his answer.

You see a lot of false dichotomies in religion and spirituality, because it encourages black and white thinking. [B]In religion, usually once something has been answered, then it no longer needs questioning[/B]. If anyone claims to know all the answers, or have a book or a belief system, [B]or even a ‘science’ that holds all the answers[/B], they are the one’s that usually know the least of all, as they are presenting a false dichotomy.[/quote]

This is good stuff. I bolded out the part I liked the best.

You know how annoying children are when they keep asking things you thought you know, than you realize you were just parroting something you have no clue about whatsoever ?

This is what I understand when I hear the christian teaching: If you become not like children you won’t enter the kingdom of heaven.
We do need to formulate our own honest questions, and filter the answers through our conscience. The difficulty lies in filtering all that “knowledge” we think we know, what we assimilated willingly-unwillingly as being part of the culture we live in. And that’s why other “cultures” are so annoying as they discard basic things we hold as true. Conflict is always good. It is an opportunity to learn.

#70

Another example could be the recent threat on this forum called ‘who’s fault’ here http://www.yogaforums.com/forums/f16/whos-fault-6157.html It asked who is at fault for one’s own actions. The individual, or the parents and the environment in which one was exposed to whilst growing up. I answered that it was both, then Surya Deva gave a black and white answer and said it was one’s own fault completely. This is a false dichotomy, as it doesn’t allow any exception to his answer.

The answer I gave was not black and white but was cognizant of the factors that affect one life(circumstances) but showed that these factors are not determinants, but they are influences. The person still has freedom to a respond to the circumstances and make the best of them. I then give actual examples of people who had unfortunate circumstances, but have been able to make the best use of their circumstances to succeed. Further showing the validity of my argument.

So evidently the answer I gave was not an EITHER OR false dichotomy but a considered response. Just remember if you are going to talk philosophy with me, I have a degree in philosophy.

However, you of all people are very guilty of false dichotomies. You only look at empiricism and you only look at matter, and you completely ignore rationalism and mind. You claim we can only know about matter for certain but not about mind. Well, there is your false dichotomy, who told you mind and matter were separate? What if mind and matter are not separate but continious. Then looking at one in isolation would be a fallacy. You are guilty of what you are criticizing others off :wink:

#71

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33133]However, you of all people are very guilty of false dichotomies.[/QUOTE]

I’m full of false dichotomies and contradictions. This universe would have never started if it wasn’t for imperfection. Gravity + tiny imperfections = Our universe. I’ll never be perfect, and am most cautious of those who claim to know perfection. I was only intending to illustrate what my interpretation of the saying ‘beware the man of one book’. I was not attacking your point directly (we’ll trying not to)… or maybe subconsciously I was… but only to make me feel better about myself temporarily :slight_smile:

#72

I was not attacking your point directly (we’ll trying not to)… or maybe subconsciously I was… but only to make me feel better about myself temporarily

And I think therein lies your problem. You want to believe this universe is imperfect and that all beings are imperfect so you can feel better about your own imperfection. However, when you encounter people who claim to be perfect, who claim the universe is perfect and claim perfect knowledge it cuts you like a knife through butter :wink:

I certainly do not beleieve this universe is imperfect. Do you know even if a single ratio was incorrect at the subatomic level there would be no existence. Everything functions perfectly in conjunction with everything else. There are definite principles of nature governing everything. The mission of science is to discover all those principles to know everything that can be known as well how we know that we know. When science has reached this goal then it would be possible to give single answers to everything.

Well Yoga is that final theory of everything. It can explain everything. If you want to know about the supersensible realities there is only one way to do it and that is Yoga. Like I told you before the only way you will know is if you practice.

#73

[QUOTE=The Scales;33117]From [I]Autobiography of a Yogi[/I] - a popular book.

“Truth is for earnest seekers, not for those of idle curiosity. It is easy to believe when one sees, no soul searchings are then necessary. Supersensual truth is deservedly discovered by those who overcome their natural materialistic skepticism.”

  • Babaji

The End.[/QUOTE]

This is a brilliant quote from Babaji. Thanks for that. Yes, to know about the supersensible realities the only way to do is it overcome materialism. Materialists will never be able to know about these realities. There are only two methods via which one can know about the supersensible realities by logic and by direct experience. I know it largely through the former.

#74

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33138]There are only two methods via which one can know about the supersensible realities by logic and by direct experience. I know it largely through the former.[/QUOTE]

A Christian would claim exactly the same thing, and there would be ZERO reason to believe them any less.

#75

Yogiadam you lie. A Christian would not claim that one knows about the supersensible realities through logic and direct experience. A Chrisitian would claim you know the supersensible reality by accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour and then you will be saved and go to heaven after you die.

#76

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33140]Yogiadam you lie. A Christian would not claim that one knows about the supersensible realities through logic and direct experience. A Chrisitian would claim you know the supersensible reality by accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour and then you will be saved and go to heaven after you die.[/QUOTE]

Not the Christians I know. I’ve met ones that have directly experience personal encounters with god himself. The scary thing is that they are not drug users… except this one guy I know who saw god open up the cloud and speak to him, and that’s why he’s Christian. I asked him if he had taken any drugs, and he said ‘yeah acid, but that doesn’t make any difference’ lol

#77

Taking drugs makes no difference. They open up the higher realities and give you a temporal glimpse. LSD was invented by a scientist who was also as esoterist, he wanted people to experience the higher realities. You see the body, mind and soul are connected and this is why your mind will respond to changes in the body as well. Injesting certain chemicals remove certain restrictions in your mind allowing you to experience those supersensible realities. It is not a path I recommend though, because it also creates dependency on the drugs and it damages your mind-body system.

In any case you are using a lot of generalization. First of all you clump all religions in one category and clump all religious and spiritual believers in one category. This is hardly critical thinking.

As for this person whose had this experiences of god. Who are you to say they did not have this experience? You can only speak of your own experiences not anothers.

There is no smoke without fire. If you were using your intellect you would think, “Hang on, why are these experiences of supersensible realities so commonly reported by humans in all traditions and all cultures from ancient to modern times and why do they have so much consistency” You would review the scientific evidence which have been able to scientifically study the higher realities and map them. Alas, you refuse to use your intellect. This is why you are not going to know these higher realitiies. As I said before your loss or your gain.

#78

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33145]Taking drugs makes no difference. They open up the higher realities and give you a temporal glimpse. LSD was invented by a scientist who was also as esoterist, he wanted people to experience the higher realities. You see the body, mind and soul are connected and this is why your mind will respond to changes in the body as well. Injesting certain chemicals remove certain restrictions in your mind allowing you to experience those supersensible realities.[/QUOTE]

Wow, I’ve never met anyone who doesn’t believe in drug induced hallucinations. Next your going to tell me that your a better driver when your drunk lol :smiley:

#79

No, I am not going to tell you are a better driver when you are drunk.

What you call hallucination is still a perception and has a reality at some level. The higher realities are mental and they have both objective and subjective characteristics, they are subjective to the extent that they subconscious projections and objective to the extent that they are structured similarly. The mental plane is its own plane of reality and you can interact with other minds on it. This is why people can remember the same dreams or you can be contacted in dreams. Several studies in out of body experiences and near death experiences confirm its objective properties.

Like I said before you are only looking at just one aspect of reality in isolation the 5 sense world and completely ignore the 6th sense world of the mind, which is our most intimate and most important world.

In fact we think about this logically(which you won’t lol) why do you think you own the world of mind? You don’t own the 5 sense world so why should you own the 6th sense world?

#80

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33160]
What you call hallucination is still a perception and has a reality at some level. The higher realities are mental and they have both objective and subjective characteristics, they are subjective to the extent that they subconscious projections and objective to the extent that they are structured similarly. The mental plane is its own plane of reality and you can interact with other minds on it. This is why people can remember the same dreams or you can be contacted in dreams. Several studies in out of body experiences and near death experiences confirm its objective properties.
[/QUOTE]

This whole paragraph is just made up! Do you just make up your own facts? I don’t know what your telling yourself to be convinced that this isn’t identical to faith and religion.
I actually don’t ignore the sixth sense. I’m constantly trying to improve my mind. I just ignore conjecture and useless, extraordinary claims.

#81

There is nothing made up about it. You are reacting like a religious person does when you tell them something which goes against their beliefs. I am telling you clearly the mind is its own plane of reality. You don’t own it anymore than you own the physical world. It is your belief that you do. It is not supported by facts. We even have scientific evidence now that the mind is its own plane of reality.

Like I told you before if the mind was not its own plane of reality why can’t we find somebodies thoughts, memories, feelings in the physical world? Why can’t I split open your brain and find your mental life? The logical answer(not your forte I know) is that it is not in the physical plane of reality. It is in another plane. Heck even modern science agrees there are other planes of reality which are supersensible.

You are not going to like this but you are just as guilty of faith as any other religious person. You believe in materialism. Fair enough, but it’s still a belief dawg.

#82

[quote=YogiAdam;33139]A Christian would claim exactly the same thing, and there would be ZERO reason to believe them any less.[/quote] And this proves what. Oh, christianity is the black sheep, comparing anything to it means it’s worthless. I get it now. :slight_smile: