I must admit to having a limited understanding of the history of Hinduism. With that said, I must ask if you feel ANY religion these days has not perverted their original teachings? If your answer is Hinduism, how have Hindus managed to not pervert their original teachings. What went wrong in other religions that didn’t with Hinduism?
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33496]I certainly do not claim Buddhism is Hinduism.
I never said you did! I acknowledged it born out of Hinduism.
The practices you guys may have similarities with Yoga but it is not Yoga. There is no such thing as Buddhist or Taoist Yoga. These are just terms given to the practices of Buddhism and Taoism because they resemble Yoga. Just like some ignorant people call Christian meditation practices Yoga.
In any case I believe that Buddhism and Taoism have obviously borrowed these techniques from Yoga but by taking them out of Hinduism it is no longer Yoga anymore.
Yoga is yoga whether it is Hindu, Buddhist or Taoist. It may not be ‘your yoga’.
And to David…The bashing and arrogance reference was not meant toward you. Go back and read some of the threads to better understand.
Bye all! Namaste!
SD BABAY!
It is my heartfelt recomendation (how gentle was that?) that you take a closer look at buddhism. I too dismissed it as bunk at one time. But I kept getting called back to it.
There were things that didn’t sit right with me about it. When I pass over a point in scripture that I don’t agree with, or I don’t understand, now I don’t reject it. I just leave it be. I may come back around to it later and guess what it might make a little more sense.
I have read vedantic teachings that contradicted my understanding of the Buddhadharma. If they had my current view point they would see no contradiction, as I see no contradiction now…
I’m a digger. I love digging for secrets. I’ll dig and dig and dig down this way for awhile. Then I’ll go dig and dig and dig somemore over here. Then I’ll come back to this and dig there.
Dear David,
In response to some of your previous questions.
Hinduism is known by Hindus as “Santana Dharma” this means the eternal religion of eternal laws and principles(which we recognise to be dharma, yoga, karma and brahman/atman) So we see it more like a science than a religion. As it is a science it means that these principles can be discovered by any people in the universe. This is why we say all religions will say more or less the same things, and why there is even greater agreement between mystics in all traditions. Hinduism is basically ultimate realization of science.
So because we see Hinduism as a science we see Yoga as a technology(You will often see Hindu teachers refer to Yoga as a technology) In other words this technology can be used most definitely by anyone and everyone, it does not matter if they are Muslim or Christian. However, we also assert that by using this technology and discovering the same universal principles they will become Hindu. Even if they do not call themselves Hindu. They will begin to assert all the truths of Hinduism. Does this mean we are saying that Christianity and Islam are wrong? Yes, we are saying some of the beliefs contained with these religions are categorically wrong and are not supported by any evidence. Such as father like god in the sky that punishes and rewards you based on how much you please him with either eternal salvation or eternal damnation. We see this as highly primitive. I am sorry if this sounds like we Hindus see our themselves as superior. We do not see ourselves as superior but our Vedic science as superior.
One thing that Hindus deny(another common thing for a Hindu guru to say) is anything based on faith or beliefs. When somebody comes up to us and tells us a belief we instantly say to them, “What is your means of knowing” In other words Hinduism is based on epistemology(like science) We accept three ways of knowing: perception, inference and testimony from a reliable authority or Veda. The most important of these, however, is perception and inference. All knowledge first begins with observable facts, but in Hindusim we know that not all facts are observable, so we accept inference as a means of knowing what is beyond perception. So Hinduism really is a metaphysics.
One of the reason we have been able to preserve our religion over 10,000 years is because of our demand for precision. For example the Vedic mantras contained within the Samhitas(Rig, Atharva, Sama, Yajur) is because they follow precise scientific laws of metre and we use error checking systems to make sure that the the entire Vedic corpus has been transmitted correctly everytime it is passed from one generation to the other. You see the Vedas contain our whole religion and philosophy. Then we created scientific ways to read the Vedas using an etymological method where we study the morphology of the words and from that we extract all the knowledge latent in them. Then we created the sutras texts(Yogasutras, Samkhyasutras, Brahmasutra, Nyaya Sutras, Vaiseshiks Sutras etc) where once again a lot of information is encoded within a few lines. These became our schools of philosophy. So all later Hindus already had a meta-structure or framework of their religion so they knew all the general principles that defined their religion.
Another reason we were able to preserve our religion despite centures of invasions was because of the caste system. The caste system was able to preserve the traditions of each of the varnas(social orders) and because there was no mixing of cases, each tradition was able to more or less maintain their traditions perfectly. Hence why ancient surgery practices continued well into the 19th century with no distortion.
The abolishing of the caste system and the traditional knowledge traditions of India and the replacment of the Vedic education system with the British education system is what has lead to a lot of confusion amongst modern Hindus about their religion and also proliferated many misconceptions about Hindusim such as polytheism, fatalism, mysticism and caste oppression. Many of these are now being rectified, and this is thanks to the works of many modern Hindu missionaries(gurus) who have come from the same traditions that have been preserved for millenias.
I hope this helps.
I didn’t interpret it as being towards me. I simply felt differently than your statement of:
There is no discussion only bashing and arrogance.
As I thought there was wonderful discussion going on. Not just my personal discourse with others, but everyone else’s discussion as well. Yes, it may not have been what was expected or in a manner of everyone’s preference, but I read some great opinions. 
Namaste’ right back at ya!
Definitely! Thank you so much for sharing, it is greatly appreciated and helps me understand your perspectives.
Here is the clip by Swami Chinmayananda talking about setting your goal in life as the infinite. It is quite a humerous discourse(his style is very humerous)
As regards of ego being a part of you. The ego that is a part of you is what Hindu’s call ahamkara(I-maker) similar to the 5 skanadas in Buddhism. It is a sense of self which is constructed. This is what you are at this moment. Then when all the limitations have been broken away you still still be who are at this moment except you will be limitless.
Allow me to demonstrate. If you look back at who you were say 20 years and who you are today it would be safe to say you have a completely different sense of self, but still you are the same person who had endured over those 20 years. It will be no different when you reach liberation. You will be the same person prior to your liberation the only difference is liberated self will be free of all limitations. It will still have memory of all its previous lives. Even Krishna say this to Arjuna, “I remember all my past lives, but you don’t”
So I submit to you again Yoga is not a self-denying philosophy at all. This is why it is so radically different to Buddhism. The self is central to Yoga philosophy. The teaching if summed up is that your actual being is absolutely divine and great and you can realise this by going back to your essential self. It does not teach, “You must first destroy yourself” No, it says grow back into your greater self. This means sublimating each of your selves along the way into a greater self. Sublimation never destroys the previous thing, but rather assimilates into something much greater.
Ok YOU MADE ME DO IT!!!
As i see it . . . How gentle . . . Buddhist Negation of self serves the purpose of inquiry.
They have their own word which is equivalent to the self. They call it a different name.
You must study the Buddhism in Particular the tennets of the mahayana to discover it.
Nor is buddhist perspective in any way nihlistic. You must dig. I can see were this “emptiness” view of Buddhism can be interpreted as nihlistic. Nihlism is poppy cock. Nihlimsm is not buddhism. Buddhism accepts the paradox.
TEE HEE!!!
ALL SAME!!!
I have no problem with Mahayana Buddhism. However, Mahayana Buddhism is more like a syncretic form of Buddhism + Hindusim. If we are speaking strict and pure Buddhism then we are talking about a Buddhism which is based strongly on the doctrine of anatman. The Mahayana at least modify this doctrine to say that what Buddha really meant was that the false-ego is not the self, but there is a one true and absolute self(like Hinduism) but Mahayana Buddhism is just as nihilistic in that it tells you to destroy desire.
The Buddhist teaching is simple: desire is the root of suffering. This is why Buddhists always carry that cold and dispassionate look. Almost like robots. The Zen are even worse. I have a friend who went to a Zen monestary and he really put off by their lack of love for colour, music and festivity.
Hinduism’s teaching similarly summed up is: You are divine, realise your self, aspire for the infinite and actualize all your highest potentials(mind, body and soul) It does not tell you to suppress your desires. This is why Hinduism is so colourful, joyous and festive. It is the most life affirming religion out there. Like some pagan religions. In fact Hinduism is the root of paganism.
I don’t follow any particular religion, but I love that Hinduism does not suppress desires. I was at a conference the other day that included representatives of 19 christian faiths. There was well over 200 people in the room where we were singing. For one song, the leader asked us to stand up and encouraged us to move with the beat. As I looked around the room, all I saw was rigid bodies. There was no movement. I felt quite sad 
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33516]I have no problem with Mahayana Buddhism. However, Mahayana Buddhism is more like a syncretic form of Buddhism + Hindusim.
[B]And buddhism sprung from the Hinduism to crush all the crap the Brahmins were doing. Don’t rely on the Brahmins. Go see for yourself.[/B]
If we are speaking strict and pure Buddhism then we are talking about a Buddhism which is based strongly on the doctrine of anatman.
[B]Buddha smarter than me!!! Source of inquiry. Hard to describe this self. You can try. Better go see for yourself. Hard to describe this ultimate truth. Best go see for yourself![/B]
The Mahayana at least modify this doctrine to say that what Buddha really meant was that the false-ego is not the self,
[B]This is my view as well. Not self. [/B]
but there is a one true and absolute self(like Hinduism) but Mahayana Buddhism is just as nihilistic in that it tells you to destroy desire.
[B]Desire/karma/ingnorance is source of incarnation. Destroy if you wish. Nihilsim means to me “WHATS THE FREAKING POINT. NOTHING.” Not true. Middle way. Heart Sutra. Both form and not form. Mode of approach. [/B]
The Buddhist teaching is simple: desire is the root of suffering. This is why Buddhists always carry that cold and dispassionate look. Almost like robots. The Zen are even worse. I have a friend who went to a Zen monestary and he really put off by their lack of love for colour, music and festivity.
[B]Mahayana smiles a lot! Vajrayana smiles alot. Zen I dunno. Hinayana. I dunno. I think your off on this… [/B]
Hinduism’s teaching similarly summed up is: You are divine, realise your self, aspire for the infinite and actualize all your highest potentials(mind, body and soul) It does not tell you to suppress your desires. This is why Hinduism is so colourful, joyous and festive. It is the most life affirming religion out there. Like some pagan religions. In fact Hinduism is the root of paganism.[/QUOTE]
All same. No difference. The Holy Science. All same. Truth is one they say.
[QUOTE=David;33517]I don’t follow any particular religion, but I love that Hinduism does not suppress desires. I was at a conference the other day that included representatives of 19 christian faiths. There was well over 200 people in the room where we were singing. For one song, the leader asked us to stand up and encouraged us to move with the beat. As I looked around the room, all I saw was rigid bodies. There was no movement. I felt quite sad :([/QUOTE]
I think dancing is the work of satan!
[QUOTE=David;33517]I don’t follow any particular religion, but I love that Hinduism does not suppress desires. I was at a conference the other day that included representatives of 19 christian faiths. There was well over 200 people in the room where we were singing. For one song, the leader asked us to stand up and encouraged us to move with the beat. As I looked around the room, all I saw was rigid bodies. There was no movement. I felt quite sad :([/QUOTE]
The baptist churches know how to groove though. African culture is very joyous and festive and this is why they laugh a lot.
In Hinduism all desires are valid, including sexual desires. This is why we have the kamasutra lol However, ultimately all desires must be bought in line with the ultimate goal and that is to realize your highest potential. Inherent within Hinduism is a very solid work ethic that in order for you attain any kind of goal you must completely and absolutely centre your entire life towards achieving that goal.
Hindusim is not even a religion about god. It is all about us. The self. There is no nothing higher than the self.
Hence why it makes sense why Hinduism would develop the science of Yoga as its main practice. As the entire aim to make us healthy, intelligent, loving and joyous beings utilizing all our potentials and being fully independent. All gods in our own right.
This makes Hinduism pure spirituality.
All this desire denying and self denying business is religion. And it is sad.
Buddha smarter than me!!! Source of inquiry. Hard to describe this self. You can try. Better go see for yourself. Hard to describe this ultimate truth. Best go see for yourself!
I am is the ultimate truth. There described it 
Desire/karma/ingnorance is source of incarnation. Destroy if you wish. Nihilsim means to me “WHATS THE FREAKING POINT. NOTHING.” Not true. Middle way. Heart Sutra. Both form and not form. Mode of approach.
Desire is what keeps you living another day. If you had no desire you would not live. I desire to be a god. That will keep me going for a time!
I reject all life-denying religions and philosophies. These are all human myths. Life is to be lived and celeberated.
Ask a child what it is like to be living and he will tell you “It’s great!”
Nor does Buddhism say YOU SHOULD suppress your desires.
It might be a point of teaching. To say “you should be without desire.” “this desire is your cause of problem. Get rid of.” In fact it’s like the opening salvo…
Student goes off to work on getting rid of their desires.
Comes back to the guru.
“Getting rid of desires is hard work.”
“yes it is. Good. Now moving on to next topic.”
The Greatness of Buddhism is that it’s systematized in such a wonderful progression.
The entire step by step process is given within the teachings. The wisdom is in the sutras. Which are ginormous. Step by Step by Step. You don’t need a lama. 8 fold path = Practical application. Genertation of Bodhichitta + 6 perfections. Then the yogas.
All same
Whereas with the Vedas its tough to find a coherent step by step system . . . the aid of teacher is priceless. All the “STUFF” gets in the way…
In this way the Buddha, like the christ was a REVOLUTIONARY!!! Go see for yourself.
You can pick up the buddhist limbs by yourself and take it all the way to the end. 8 limbed system. Expertly codified. Guaranteed results. Eventually.
[B]SD your Rejection of Buddhism makes you ignorant of it. Thus you say . . . nihlistic, life negating, get rid of desires, emptiness and all this. Just like I found in some the vedantic commentaries by the scholarly. Surface knowledge only. Yep. [/B]
MY JNANA just beat your Jnana!
Who got the gnosis now?
*dances…
This is why Buddhism kicks Hinduisms booty in America.
THe Buddhadharma strips out all the ritual, and caste, and the conceptualizations and personifications of the Ulltimate. It holds no ultimately fixed view points.
Buddha is awesome. But I’m not Buddhist. All same.
[QUOTE=Surya Deva;33524]I am is the ultimate truth. There described it
[B]WORDS. Buddha smarter than you too I see. [/B]
Desire is what keeps you living another day. If you had no desire you would not live. I desire to be a god. That will keep me going for a time!
I reject all life-denying religions and philosophies. These are all human myths. Life is to be lived and celeberated.
Ask a child what it is like to be living and he will tell you “It’s great!”[/QUOTE]
I’m not praying to you! No way. Ha.
Which god’s job are you shooting for?
Me personally I’d just rather be a yogi. Yes I’m a simpleton.
Whereas with the Vedas its tough to find a coherent step by step system . . . the aid of teacher is priceless. All the “STUFF” gets in the way…
Rubbish 
The Vedas created a whole systematic science called Yoga based on rigorous philosophical analysis and phenomenological analysis which gives a complete theory and a complete practice. The result of that is for everybody to see today a multi billion dollar business.
Buddhism borrows its techniques from Yoga but it lacks the theory. Even the techniques are out of context are not being done with the proper preliminaries. Where are all of these Buddhas with those 6 perfections? The Buddhists I meet are just as ordinary as everyone else I meet.
If you want to feel better you don’t get better by sitting in the corner, closing your eyes and day dreaming. You get better by doing a nice 1 hour Yoga workout with some pranayama and you feel great.
Nobody denies that Yoga makes you feel great. There is not much consensus on Buddhism though. In fact on the contrary Buddhism can sap the life out of you and turn you into a robot.
I would like to remind you Buddhism in its country of origin was eventually rejected. That is saying a lot. It was defeated fair and square in formal debates throughout the country, and the Buddhists saw how illogical it was and converted back to Hinduism. Buddhism could not stand up to scurtiny. It was exposed to be the nihilistic belief system that it was and it was doing nothing but numbing the minds of people.
Christianity never even took of in India. It was too primitive to even be looked at.
SD your Rejection of Buddhism makes you ignorant of it. Thus you say . . . nihlistic, life negating, get rid of desires, emptiness and all this. Just like I found in some the vedantic commentaries by the scholarly. Surface knowledge only. Yep.
Hinayana. Mahayana. Then the yogas.
This is the progression.
Whooped ya again.
All same anyway.
Also your view of Christianity is primitive.
Its a system. Teachings are in the Bible. Esoteric knowlege is in there. But not expounded. Needs initiation to understand fully. It is complete when initiated into by a master. Or gradually becomes clear through compartive system study.
Study won’t bear fruit until you go to the end of each. Then all same.
Just give me example of Buddists living today that have 6 perfections.
If Buddhism was so great with hundreds of millions of Buddhists in the world practicing their meditation religiously we would see many realised masters walking about. Were are they?