Will America become Hindu by the end of the century?

Spirituality Religion
#261

[QUOTE=thomas;45930]I can walk down the street and in the name of Jesus kill 20 people and claim that Jesus made me do it, and maybe even find a rationale for it somewhere, but that would go totally against my Christian beliefs to do so.

And it would be unfair to blame those murders on my Church which forbids them.

There is nothing in Christiainity which tells us to kill infidels or do violence to anyone, except in the case of self-defense or a “just war.”

But this is getting old and you are beginning to seem to be a one trick pony, Nietzsche. Every post you say “Christianity is stupid and evil” but not much more substance than that.[/QUOTE]

If 1 person does that, then yes, it would be unfair. If entire societies and civilizations do that, then it would be fair, and is indeed what has happened throughout history.

“Just war?” No doubt Christians used this logic to kill millions of heretics and infidels and destroy their respective cultures.

Actually, if anyone’s post has no substance, it is you. Surya Deva and I repeatedly cite historical fact and events and you repeatedly used the same old “you’re wrong tactic,” in the manner of a flapping fish gasping for air when there is none that suits it. Besides that, there is no substance in your responses, other than regurgitated defensive rhetoric.

#262

[QUOTE=Yulaw;43446]You know I think that by the end of the century America will be mostly Rastafari :slight_smile:

Religion…Members…Percentage…Growth
Christianity…2.1 billion…33.0%…dropping
Islam…1.5 billion…21…growing
Hinduism…900 million…14 …stable
Buddhism…376 million…6…stable
Sikhism…23 million…0.36
Judaism…14 million…0.22
Bahaism…7 million…0.1
Confucianism…6.3 million…0.1
Jainism…4.2 million…0.1
Shintoism…4 million…0.0

or you can look at it this way

World Population Percentages by Religious Group
religious 86%, non-religious and anti-religious 14%.

Religious Groups
monotheists 54%, reincarnationists 20%, ethno religions 10%

Monotheists
Christians 33%, Muslims 21%

Reincarnationists
Hindu 13%, Buddhist 6%

Ethno Religions Chinese 6.3%, tribal 4%

Non-religious groups
Non-religious and agnostic 11.9%, anti-religious and atheist 2.3%

Or you can get any number of similar statsitics… either way my vote is still no[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I do not quite get it: Buddhism 376 millions ? China, Japan, and other
Asian countries are Buddhist. Only China has more than 1 billion people.

Maybe the statistics above refers only to officially practising people.

#263

No, I don’t think so.

#264

[QUOTE=Yulaw;43446]You know I think that by the end of the century America will be mostly Rastafari :slight_smile:

Religion................Members................Percentage................Growth

Christianity...........2.1 billion...............33.0%.......................dropping

Islam...................1.5 billion...............21............................growing

Hinduism..............900 million..............14 ...........................stable

[/QUOTE]

Christianity on the rise in the world

Well, I can see other statistics:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/the-globalization-of-god-in-the-21st-century/article1862190/

A few points from this report of today, in the largest newspaper from Canada:

  1. Christianity is now on its biggest roll in its 2,000 years history.
    It is on the rise in virtually every country except EU (European Union)
    and except Islamic countries.

  2. In absolute numbers of adherents Christianity is at an all time high.

  3. Christian Pentecostalism produced the fastest growth of any religious
    movement in history.

  4. The most dynamic religious explosion in the world is not Islamic, but
    Christian Evanghrelical Protestant.. It now has 688 million people,
    reaching strategic mass in countries such as China, India, Indonesia,
    and Nigeria.

  5. Pentecostalism in China by 2050 could reach 16 % of its population.

  6. In 2050 the number of Christians worldwide will exceed three billion.
    That will have great and good consequences for work ethic,
    entrepreneurial spirit and commitment to individual freedom.

#265

That will have great and good consequences for work ethic,
entrepreneurial spirit and commitment to individual freedom.

In other words even more capitalism to look forward to. And you think this a good thing? :wink:

#266

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;47242]In other words even more capitalism to look forward to. And you think this a good thing? ;)[/QUOTE]

India is embracing it…what else did you have in mind? something new? Something that will work? where everyone will be content…

#267

India had no choice but to embrace it, because it was forced down its throat. Capitalism is not an Indian socio-economic system. The varna-ashrama system is Indian.

#268

[QUOTE=Yulaw;43446]You know I think that by the end of the century America will be mostly Rastafari :slight_smile:

Religion................Members................Percentage................Growth
Christianity...........2.1 billion...............33.0%.......................dropping
Islam...................1.5 billion...............21............................growing
Hinduism..............900 million..............14 ...........................stable
Buddhism.............376 million...............6.............................stable
Sikhism.................23 million...............0.36
Judaism................14 million...............0.22
Bahaism.................7 million...............0.1
Confucianism........6.3 million...............0.1
Jainism................4.2 million...............0.1
Shintoism...............4 million...............0.0

or you can look at it this way

World Population Percentages by Religious Group
religious 86%, non-religious and anti-religious 14%.

Religious Groups
monotheists 54%, reincarnationists 20%, ethno religions 10%

Monotheists
Christians 33%, Muslims 21%

Reincarnationists
Hindu 13%, Buddhist 6%

Ethno Religions Chinese 6.3%, tribal 4%

Non-religious groups
Non-religious and agnostic 11.9%, anti-religious and atheist 2.3%

Or you can get any number of similar statsitics... either way my vote is still no[/QUOTE]

Hello Yulaw.

I could see now how it was difficult to understand why Buddhism was listed with only 376 million adherents.

In other statistics, wikipedia, I see listed Chinese folk religions and other folk religions:

Best regards,

#269

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;47246]India had no choice but to embrace it, because it was forced down its throat. Capitalism is not an Indian socio-economic system. The varna-ashrama system is Indian.[/QUOTE]

But that is true for everyone throughout time. Capitalistic change.What ever India was/is will become its history.

#270

[QUOTE=oak333;47214]Christianity on the rise in the world

Well, I can see other statistics:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/opinion/the-globalization-of-god-in-the-21st-century/article1862190/

A few points from this report of today, in the largest newspaper from Canada:

  1. Christianity is now on its biggest roll in its 2,000 years history.
    It is on the rise in virtually every country except EU (European Union)
    and except Islamic countries.

  2. In absolute numbers of adherents Christianity is at an all time high.

  3. Christian Pentecostalism produced the fastest growth of any religious
    movement in history.

  4. The most dynamic religious explosion in the world is not Islamic, but
    Christian Evanghrelical Protestant.. It now has 688 million people,
    reaching strategic mass in countries such as China, India, Indonesia,
    and Nigeria.

  5. Pentecostalism in China by 2050 could reach 16 % of its population.

  6. In 2050 the number of Christians worldwide will exceed three billion.
    That will have great and good consequences for work ethic,
    entrepreneurial spirit and commitment to individual freedom.[/QUOTE]

1). Why is it on its biggest roll? Because Christian nations conquered other countries, raped them of their wealth and resources, and forcefully converted the heathens (or let missionaries do their filthy work).

2). And thankfully, it is going down.
3). I hope it will die out.
4). At this point, I have to inquire about where you are getting your information.
5). The Chinese government and people hate Christianity (and rightfully so). Christianity, and those subscribing to it, caused the bloodiest civil war in history, the Taiping Rebellion (by the way, Hong Xiquan apparently was inspired by his visions of God torturing Confucius and other Chinese philosophers and teachers who taught "idol worship" and "paganism." Kudos to Christianity) and caused the death of 20-30 million people. France and Britain, Christian nations, conquered China many times over, divided up China, and used it for its own gain. Christianity is a disease, teaching coverts in other countries to hate their former culture and essentially, working to subvert the masses. So the Chinese government will thankfully put a stop to this, assuming your info is correct (which I highly doubt).
6). Once again, I highly doubt your info is correct. Christianity is decreasing in developed and Western nations and increasing in 3rd world nations, especially Africa. So it will balance out eventually. No, it will have a debilitating effect wherever it takes hold, promoting intolerance, materialism, hatred of their own heritage and culture, and so forth. Last time I checked, mostly Atheist or Buddhist South East/East Asians and Hindu Indians are doing the best in American schools these days. Most Christians are at still groveling at the foot of their Jeezus and praying that their grades will magically increase. And I don't think intolerance of other religions and repressive actions against those of other cultures and religions counts as individual freedom.

This reminds me of a time when my class was having a discussion on the question "If you had a chance to meet with three famous people and dine with them, who would it be?" One of the people I know said Saint Thomas Aquinas. His reason? "I wanted to ask him why he tried to rationalize Christianity when it is clearly illogical." The two Christians in my class were very offended (who don't have the best work ethics by the way). Lulz were had by the rest of the class.

#271

No, because this history is not India’s history. This is the history of the West, which always had a capitalist like structure to society. Prior to capitalism there were feudalism where the owners were the feudal overlords and the the rest of society were peasents. This dichotomy of ruling class and ruled class has always been the case in Western society. If we go back as far as Sumerian times, even then society was modelled on the dichotomy of a ruling class and a ruled class: the priest kings and the slaves.

In dharmic history the opposite is true. Indian society has always been based on a highly stratified society with complex divisions and complex arrangement of duties, occupations.

In sociological language the former is a case of a conflict-based society and the latter is a case of a functional society.

#272

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;47251]No, because this history is not India’s history. This is the history of the West, which always had a capitalist like structure to society. Prior to capitalism there were feudalism where the owners were the feudal overlords and the the rest of society were peasents. This dichotomy of ruling class and ruled class has always been the case in Western society. If we go back as far as Sumerian times, even then society was modelled on the dichotomy of a ruling class and a ruled class: the priest kings and the slaves.

In dharmic history the opposite is true. Indian society has always been based on a highly stratified society with complex divisions and complex arrangement of duties, occupations.

In sociological language the former is a case of a conflict-based society and the latter is a case of a functional society.[/QUOTE]

Its not as simple as that. What is forcing India’s hand is the West. But you said that things are improving for the poor in India, and this is not a misconception but a fact, so something good will come out of it? India will be a major player in the world. Before this, India was not. The rising countries are Brazil, Russia, India and China, BRIC…America, Canada and Great Britain are not on the list, so their consequences of this Capitalistic society they created is moving into the hands of others.
Perhaps India will help to improve what the west started in its handling of Capitalism., It needn’t be all negative, you don’t know the future, the future may be good.

#273

[QUOTE=kareng;47263]Its not as simple as that. What is forcing India’s hand is the West. But you said that things are improving for the poor in India, and this is not a misconception but a fact, so something good will come out of it? India will be a major player in the world. Before this, India was not. The rising countries are Brazil, Russia, India and China, BRIC…America, Canada and Great Britain are not on the list, so their consequences of this Capitalistic society they created is moving into the hands of others.
Perhaps India will help to improve what the west started in its handling of Capitalism., It needn’t be all negative, you don’t know the future, the future may be good.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I think your Indian side took over your irrational white side and made you speak sensibly for once.

And guess what? I agree with you -r Indian side! India was not a major player in the world due to the rape of the British. Simple enough. But now our future is in our hands and we can make it whatever we wish…provided that certain…aspects of Indian politics and society are eradicated.

#274

India was more developed, literate and prosperous than it was today prior to the British coming and raping the country. Gandhi very famously said this, and we have facts and figures from pre-British times to prove it.

The highest share of the of GDP of the world from 1AD to 10AD was India with approx 33% share of the worlds gdp. To compare, America’s share of the GDP of the world is 25%. India was therefore an ancient superpower and it was a much more prosperous superpower than America is today. This would not have been possible, if India’s social systems did not work. They worked, and they worked exceedingly well.

Capitalism does not work. It has its own seeds of destruction within it(Marx) Look at the current economic situation of the capitalist countries today and then tell me if capitalism works. The varna-ashrama system lasted for thousands of years. Capitalism cannot last even a few decades without massive depressions and economic crisis.

India’s progress today is regression compared to its past.

#275

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;47277]India was more developed, literate and prosperous than it was today prior to the British coming and raping the country. Gandhi very famously said this, and we have facts and figures from pre-British times to prove it.

The highest share of the of GDP of the world from 1AD to 10AD was India with approx 33% share of the worlds gdp. To compare, America’s share of the GDP of the world is 25%. India was therefore an ancient superpower and it was a much more prosperous superpower than America is today. This would not have been possible, if India’s social systems did not work. They worked, and they worked exceedingly well.

Capitalism does not work. It has its own seeds of destruction within it(Marx) Look at the current economic situation of the capitalist countries today and then tell me if capitalism works. The varna-ashrama system lasted for thousands of years. Capitalism cannot last even a few decades without massive depressions and economic crisis.

India’s progress today is regression compared to its past.[/QUOTE]

I was speaking of the 20th century. I knew all of the above post though. Sorry I didn’t clarify before.

#276

[QUOTE=Surya Deva;47277]India was more developed, literate and prosperous than it was today prior to the British coming and raping the country. Gandhi very famously said this, and we have facts and figures from pre-British times to prove it.

The highest share of the of GDP of the world from 1AD to 10AD was India with approx 33% share of the worlds gdp. To compare, America’s share of the GDP of the world is 25%. India was therefore an ancient superpower and it was a much more prosperous superpower than America is today. This would not have been possible, if India’s social systems did not work. They worked, and they worked exceedingly well.

Capitalism does not work. It has its own seeds of destruction within it(Marx) Look at the current economic situation of the capitalist countries today and then tell me if capitalism works. The varna-ashrama system lasted for thousands of years. Capitalism cannot last even a few decades without massive depressions and economic crisis.

India’s progress today is regression compared to its past.[/QUOTE]

It is in the nature of human beings to create and destroy. I know I dont have to look into it to know that the system you speak about will be flawed.,.,.the flaws of human beings and this cannot be disputed, otherwise you would have a perfect race and you dont, this was so before the British and after and will be in 50 years…

#277

[QUOTE=kareng;47331]It is in the nature of human beings to create and destroy. I know I dont have to look into it to know that the system you speak about will be flawed.,.,.the flaws of human beings and this cannot be disputed, otherwise you would have a perfect race and you dont, this was so before the British and after and will be in 50 years…[/QUOTE]

These guys live opulent Western lives and enjoy everything the West has to offer. Don’t play with these guys, they’re flaming hypocrites who are so guilty about being so painfully out of touch with India & their ethnic heritage that they overcompensate with this Hindutva crap.
You’ll hear them raging over India this & India that but guess what? They LOVE the West, the LOVE Capitalism and everything it gets them, they love their Western clothes and their Western cars and their Western food and their Western movies and their Western $$$$$$$ and their Western POWER, they’ll never go back to live in India & work an average job & live in an average home to see how the other side lives, they certainly don’t love India and their heritage enough to do that. :rolleyes:

#278

It is in the nature of human beings to create and destroy. I know I dont have to look into it to know that the system you speak about will be flawed.,.,.the flaws of human beings and this cannot be disputed, otherwise you would have a perfect race and you dont, this was so before the British and after and will be in 50 years…

Of course it is flawed. The ideal society would be classless and everybody would be a sage and live the Vedic life. The varna-ashrama system was created for human beings in the kaliyuga as the best possible society for our times. So people can best develop spiritually in the kaliyuga. The capitalist system does not have that purpose in mind at all, it is not about spirituality, but pure greed. This is why all parts of the world that are under it sway are spiritually impoverished. Including modern India.

#279

These guys live opulent Western lives and enjoy everything the West has to offer. Don’t play with these guys, they’re flaming hypocrites who are so guilty about being so painfully out of touch with India & their ethnic heritage that they overcompensate with this Hindutva crap.
You’ll hear them raging over India this & India that but guess what? They LOVE the West, the LOVE Capitalism and everything it gets them, they love their Western clothes and their Western cars and their Western food and their Western movies and their Western $$$$$$$ and their Western POWER, they’ll never go back to live in India & work an average job & live in an average home to see how the other side lives, they certainly don’t love India and their heritage enough to do that.

Many Western intellectually criticise the West, but they still live in the West and live by its traditions, so what is your point? I have no choice but to live according to the Western tradition. I was born and brought up in a Western and capitalist society. I was socialised within this culture. This does not mean I cannot be critical of this society and culture.

And why on earth would I go to India to have an average job with an average household, when I can have a good job, with a good income and good household and living standards here. Modern India is also a capitalist country, so why would I go from one capitalist country to another, that too a lesser developed capitalist country? If my aim is to better my wealth and living standards, I would be foolish to go to India. This is why Indians prefer going abroad.

The India that I admire is the pre-modern India prior to to being subverted by Abrahamic ideology. The India of today barely resembles it. Now, I don’t have a time machine so I can’t go to the India of pre-modern times.

My goals are bigger than India. India is after all just a land, a land that is associated with a lot of sacred activity, but nonetheless still a land. My goal is to bring back the Vedic age — all over the world - not just India. I want to see the fall of the Abrahamic world and the rise of the Dharmic world. India is small fry in this mission.

#280

Btw if you really are not an idiot you will realise now that I am not a nationalist. I do not believe nation states are absolute. I am a humanist, because I want all of humanity to live united under one culture. Vedic culture.