Yoga and Christianity

[quote=Hubert;14528]
You bring the subject of Hypnosis as an example of how positive things will make our lives better through self suggestion. It’s worth is just that. A false truth of self suggestion, what provides temporarly relief. It is easy to fall to this temptation escepcially for people sucpetiblke to it. Saying I am Light, I am Atman, I am Peace, easily generates a tranquil state, a thoughtless one, a state out of one’s ordinary self. That is not yet enlightement, or realization, it is a sidetrack. God (or the Self, or as I like to name it, Christ) is not that easy to realized (except a few people, but that is unrelevant, I am talking about us, average people). Because any spiritual experience is a subjective one (at least in the beginning, where I am) my knowledge of where other posters are, is based solely on what they post.
Negative things are not to be forced down to the cellar as it happens in case of autosuggestion, but surfaced, faced, realized, accetped and lived with. They steal psychic energy, and are obstacles in Self realization. Eventually they will disappear, but only if confronted.[/quote]

Don’t forget dear Hubert that this sutra is a part of a sequential thread and if you follow it you are constantly reminded on non-attachment…

Yes, it is true. :slight_smile: Sorry.

Opinions

In all matters of opinion, our adversaries are insane.

      Mark Twain

Christian Meditation continued

Evagrius Pontikus wrote the first treatise on monastic prayers, as transmitted orally by the Desert Fathers. He showed the juxtaposition of prayer and meditation.

http://www.kalvesmaki.com/EvagPont/Online.htm

He wrote: "prayer is an ascent of intellect to God."

He divided the consciousness into two levels:

  1. DISCURSIVE level of consciousness,, depending upon senses to provide data for
    thought.

  2. INTELLECTION level of conscoiusness, which dispenses with ideas and sense
    impressions and is an intuitive awareness.

You cannot attain pure prayer while entangled in material things.

"Prayer is the intellect's true and highest activity", he mentions.

INTELLECTION for Evagrius is a divine substance, capable of reaching profound stillnes
HESYCHYA. I requote this:

But the YOGA meditation of Evagrius COINCIDES with the meditation of Patanjali, who similarly indicated that when one is no longer bothered by sense impressions, thoughts, remembrances, then one becomes aware of his full identity (self-realization).

For both Evagrius and Patanjali, regardless of religion, the pursuit of ultimate significance is the same quieting of the mind.

to be cont'd
(do not want to be timed out)

Quote

Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.

                     Carl Jung

[quote=oak333;14560]
But the YOGA meditation of Evagrius COINCIDES with the meditation of Patanjali, who similarly indicated that when one is no longer bothered by sense impressions, thoughts, remembrances, then one becomes aware of his full identity (self-realization).

For both Evagrius and Patanjali, regardless of religion, the pursuit of ultimate significance is the same quieting of the mind.

(do not want to be timed out)[/quote]

Yes, because human beings are human beings, and spirituality is really one.
I am not arguing anything, but I think, until one does not have the possibility to constantly reassure oneself with direct spiritual sight or experience, one needs the outer helpers like method, form, thoughts, resoning, relations, aso. Because ordering the latter makes the former possible. Just as various athletes might have various training methods, what all work on the same musculo-skeletal and circulatory system, with similar results, there are several training methods for variosus souls who generate aslo similar results.

Regular christian prayer can open the heart chakra. The problem is that this opening makes possible expereinces what, if not checked by the complementary action of other chakras, like ajna chakra, they will lead to false interpretations, and leave room for various errors, much greatear and more dangerous than possible in a spiritually blind person.

Let me give you an example -from my own life-:
Openness or activity of devotion (as a petal of the heart chakra) will make us able to sense what is happening in another human being’s soul. But if there is no discernment, and strenght of will, this person will be totally absorbed into the soul life of that other being. Now if it happens that the soul life of the subject is ruled by a powerful sentiment as romantic love, this romantic love will be perceived in the seers own soul, without the realization of i’ts real source. The active heart chakra senses the other being’s soul, but this happens as it would be felt by the observer him/herself. This weakness of discernemnt, this lack of being attached to what happens in one’s own soul, will make this person an emotional slave of that other being, creating the illusion that he/she is in love with the subject being.
This error can be avoided or cured by working with ajna chakra, where attention, focus, concentration is used. The quiet, unattached awarness is working through this spiritual organ.
The natural solution usually is worse, it is a closure of the already working anahata, a darkening, to prevent us from the pain of living someone else’s emotions. This is why moral training, yama and niyama is so important, as these develop the necessary courage, strenght of will, and optismism, to witness the world as it really is, in the various powers acting in human souls, and all natural forces. These powers ar not always sublime and good, sometimes they are so dark, so “evil”, and by evil I mean antihuman (even if they have a greater reason for existence wich is also good) that a person who did not detach him/herself spiritually from human condition, will not be able to face it at all. Indeed, superhuman qualities are required, and this is achived by sadhana, or constant, disciplined spiritual practice.

The other thing is that no success will ever be achived by selfish people. All teaching and learning must be done for the sake of helping other beings. Real selflessness is needed, and this is not possible without the “death” of the lower nature of the human being. Not physical death, but a process what happens in the soul, called vairagya in yoga or hindusim, or the dark night of the soul, by Santiago de la Cruz.

Chriistian Meditation on the Television

I have just watched a TV show with CATHOLIC Christian Meditation,cca
1PM- 2PM EST (Eastern Standard Time or GMT - 5)

The TV show was organized by the CATHOLIC Church organization quoted below:

As you can see, there is nothing wrong with meditation in the Catholic church.

[QUOTE=madeline_sweet;8673]Hello! I have a bit of an inner-dilemma and I am wondering what everyone has to say about this.

I am very interested in Yoga and Zen and meditation and these sorts of things. However, I was raised very strict {Christian Tradition} … and my parents do not approve.

I am 32, and this really shouldn’t matter to me, I have not lived in their house in 14 years … but it does. They are my family after all - and I love them, and desire their approval.

I know that the Dalai Lama believes we should respect the Religion of our upbringing, but I am so drawn to Yoga, and really want to be an instructor of yoga. I have signed up for instructor training in February, and went to a Zen meditation class this morning, but all I can think is - my parents would spazz if they knew what I was getting into.

I also decided to check out the Unitarian church a few Sunday’s ago - and while I don’t know if it’s for me - my parents would absolutely freak if they knew this about me. I am a seeker.

I do try to be respectful, but I can’t seem to embrace Christianity the way I am “supposed” to. Half of the things that I’ve been told are bad and wrong, I just can’t see why they are bad and wrong - Yoga being one of them!

I am wondering if anyone else has had to deal with this - where something you desire and are so curious and interested in … is basically “wrong” in the eyes of the people you love the most.

I don’t know how to Respect my family … AND Respect myself in this situation … I don’t believe this is something I’m pursuing out of Rebellion, but out of a genuine desire and curiosity and interest. I was raised in a very “extreme” environment. I love my family, but they are very prone to Religion-bashing {other than their own} and I, by contrast, have a strong value of Religious Tolerance.

I’m just very confused and maybe broken-hearted that it is without their blessing that I pursue this … and also, maybe a bit scared that I will burn in the embers of Hell for doing this {but I don’t really think I believe in the Biblical Hell as it’s been presented to me}.

Alright - I’m done rambling. Just being very honest at this point, and wondering if there is any wisdom out there for me.

~Madeline[/QUOTE]

Dear Madeline,

There is no contradiction between Christianity and Yoga. Even the Jesuits
practice Yoga:

http://christianyogamagazine.com/category/jesuits-and-yoga/

In the Christian Yoga Magazine you will find many such examples of Christian churches practising Yoga.

Christian Meditation continued

Differences ocurred between Roman and Byzantine Christianity.

Monasteries were still independent, but the monastic rules and observances were
becoming more and more standardized.

St. Benedict introduced legislative rules for Western monasteries, where Western hermits now had to live in.

There were more hermits in the Byzantine Christianity, who became troublesome. Emperor Justinian decreed that all hermits had to live in monasteries.

In the Middle Age the monasteries accepted the revered writing of Dionysis the Areopagite: the spiritual journey was a meditative process leading to a
SUPRA-RATIONAL KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.

Note: As I mentioned before, these are quotes from the book:
A Meeting of Mystic Paths
Christianity and Yoga
Justin O’Brien
Sometimes I added additional information from the Internet.

to be cont’d
( do not want to be timed out)

Well, I see that thread is no more active. Then I will conclude with an official document
of the Catholic church, approved by Pope John Paul II, Congregation of the Doctrine of Faith, headed y Cardinal Rantzinger, the present Pope:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm

This document basically approves the Christian meditation, with some warnings.

If you want to see what the Christain meditation is all about, just look at:

http://www.wccm.org/faqslist.asp?pagestyle=faqlist

Note: I posted these sites on another forum, under the username sagopalm.

Wow, nice links. Thank you. The first link (letters) clearly show that christianity is enriched by the ever growing presence of eastern methods. That’s the great value of the latter … that it narrows the gap between a spiritually oriented person, and a worldly oriented one, whic is much larger in western cultures.

Everything is there for a reason …

It’s very good to read all your post. I saw on a Christian forum that Yoga was not such a good thing. How wrong they are!

AUM and Christ Consciousness

I just quote from the booklet Metaphysical Meditations of Paramahansa Yogananda, which quotes the Autobiography of a Yogi:

In the Christian Bible we have God the Father, Son, Holy Ghost (Sat, Tat, Aum in Hindu Scriptures).

God the Father is the Absolute, existing beyond vibratory creation.

God the Son is the Christ Consciousness, existing within vibratory creation.

The outward manifestation of the omnipresent Christ Consciousness is the AUM, the Word, or Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the invisible divine power, the only doer, the sole causative and activating force that upholds all creation through vibration.

The Comforter is the Holy Ghost, whon the Father will send in my name to teach you all things…

AUM is the blissful Comforter which reveals to the devotee the Ultimate Truth.


Well, it looks like Christianity and Hinduism have the same basic concepts.

[quote=oak333;14933]AUM and Christ Consciousness

Well, it looks like Christianity and Hinduism have the same basic concepts.[/quote]

Hello! In the spirit of discussion, I have always been taught that the difference between Christianity and other Religions is that Christianity teaches Salvation through the GRACE of Christ. Other religions teach {Like buddhism} that if you sit long enough, you may reach enlightenment - but with Christianity, it is only by Grace that we come to Salvation {there is no way we could earn it on our own}.

I truly do believe so many religions have the very same basic, good, loving, peaceful concepts - and I respect all religions, but there is something about Grace that really does resonate with me :slight_smile: And I think it is a key difference between Christianity and other faiths.

In Hinduism, I believe Nirvana can be reached by clearing your karma {am i correct in that}? I believe we are all seekers - and I respect those of all faiths, so I am only stating this for discussion Only! Not trying to create argument - only collaboration and discussion.

[quote=madeline_sweet;15032] Christianity teaches Salvation through the GRACE of Christ.
[/quote]…and if we die in the state of grace we will see God and live with Him forever in joy and everlasting happiness.

[quote=madeline_sweet;15032]Hello! In the spirit of discussion, I have always been taught that the difference between Christianity and other Religions is that Christianity teaches Salvation through the GRACE of Christ. Other religions teach {Like buddhism} that if you sit long enough, you may reach enlightenment - but with Christianity, it is only by Grace that we come to Salvation {there is no way we could earn it on our own}.

I truly do believe so many religions have the very same basic, good, loving, peaceful concepts - and I respect all religions, but there is something about Grace that really does resonate with me And I think it is a key difference between Christianity and other faiths.

In Hinduism, I believe Nirvana can be reached by clearing your karma {am i correct in that}? I believe we are all seekers - and I respect those of all faiths, so I am only stating this for discussion Only! Not trying to create argument - only collaboration and discussion.[/quote]

The impression about eastern meditation methods and yoga teaching how to aquire godliness by our own powers is mistaken. This mistake is understandable from those who do not intimatley know those other religions. Simply, it is not true, I know it now after studying hindusim, and yoga, the Sivananda school.
While yoga can be seen such a way, in reality, it never worked without the presence of a Master, or guru. But you are right that we live in different times now than the ancient rishis. There indeed is, and for the last 2000 years, has been a vitalizing presence in the Earth’s etheric (vital) aura, what made possible development of free individual consciousness, the realization of I AM, the evolution of a stronger sense of individuality (what not necessarily means a bad ego). The whole world’s evolution would’ve been quite different without christianity, a religion, what without the background of tradition, without a sound philosophy or theology to back it up, managed to spread to all corners of the world. This indeed is a miracle, and to see this as an imperialist or agressive thing, is understandable, yet it did happen for a reason. Christianity works not by it’s philosophy or theology, but through this unseen presence what, nevertheless is there, The Holy Ghost. And as a last statement, I must say, that the fundamental truth’s of christianity has not been comprehended yet by the church itself ! We say, Christ died for us, but we do not know what this really means. We say, Christ saved us all, all humankind, but we do not know what that really means. We wait for the kingdom of heaven, but we do not know what that will be like. And without comprehending these truth’s christianity in it’s current, traditional form is like a beatuful myth, but what we do not really believe, as we cannot really say we beleive in things we do not comprehend. That is not faith, but a weakness of spirit, that is not good enough for free indoviduals, free spiritual beings. Surely, we need humility, and respect, to realize the fundamentally unfree nature of human condition on Earth, but we also need to spiritually comprehend and find how the core teaching of christianity is really, and literally true. Because they are true, just we have been fooled, and our eyes veiled to not see it.

And the key of a deeper understanding stands in christianity being enriched by the study of eastern wisdom. Surely, there are initiates, there are seers, who know much more than we all could imagine, but they have a rule: they cannot act in any way against the principle of human freedom. But they act in ways that hidden truth’s are gradually revealed, and humanity is lead to a deeper comprehension of it’s role, meaning and purpose. Beleive me, no traditional religion is but a tenth part representative of the complexity what the problems of humanity present.
Today’s science is like a blind man, who finds the broken pieces of a very complex machine, and tries to imagine what it was and how it really works.
But still, exactly our objective scientific findings will help us in realizing that traditions in all theri form, are bearers of a much greater wisdom than we could ever imagine. So everything is there for a reason, not by chance, and the darkness will be slowly lifted by the light of reason, and the presence of brotherly love. The latter is the immediate teaching of The Christ, love thy neighbour as you love thyself … not as an outer command, but one comeing from our own hearts.

So, yes you are right in your heart resonating with the messages of christianity … because it works this way. Not by the intellect, but through the heart. But this is not yet enough, because this way we will not be strong enough for the tests what wait us in the future. We also need to comprehend … we need to realize what Sivananda says so beautifully: bhakti and jnana are ultimatley the same. So when you cannot ultimatley love thy neighbour for example, a little jnana will complement your heart’s closedness, and it will open. :slight_smile:
As love can do wonders, so can a little comprehension.

PS. Salvation by Grace alone, can be also misunderstood. It can make you weak against the temptation of conservatorism. While salvation by Grace is true, it DOES NOT EXCLUDE THE PERSONAL STRIVING for this salvation to happen. Grace only works when you desire it to work, from all your heart, and with all your power. Lazy people will not inherit the kingdom of God, that’s also in the New Covenant.
The Apostle Paul says, that salvation comes not only by faith, but through deeds resulting from faith. The Christ says, not all who say, Lord, Lord, will inherit the Kingdom of God, but those who do the will of the Father. So it is clear that Salvation is not granted, but made possible, and there for us by the Christ’s unseen presence, but we still need to do our best to become able to recieve this gift.
God reaches down for us, but we need to raise our arms so our hands can meet, and we are lifted.

[QUOTE=madeline_sweet;8673]Hello! I have a bit of an inner-dilemma and I am wondering what everyone has to say about this.

I am very interested in Yoga and Zen and meditation and these sorts of things. However, I was raised very strict {Christian Tradition} … and my parents do not approve.

I am 32, and this really shouldn’t matter to me, I have not lived in their house in 14 years … but it does. They are my family after all - and I love them, and desire their approval.

I know that the Dalai Lama believes we should respect the Religion of our upbringing, but I am so drawn to Yoga, and really want to be an instructor of yoga. I have signed up for instructor training in February, and went to a Zen meditation class this morning, but all I can think is - my parents would spazz if they knew what I was getting into.

I also decided to check out the Unitarian church a few Sunday’s ago - and while I don’t know if it’s for me - my parents would absolutely freak if they knew this about me. I am a seeker.

I do try to be respectful, but I can’t seem to embrace Christianity the way I am “supposed” to. Half of the things that I’ve been told are bad and wrong, I just can’t see why they are bad and wrong - Yoga being one of them!

I am wondering if anyone else has had to deal with this - where something you desire and are so curious and interested in … is basically “wrong” in the eyes of the people you love the most.

I don’t know how to Respect my family … AND Respect myself in this situation … I don’t believe this is something I’m pursuing out of Rebellion, but out of a genuine desire and curiosity and interest. I was raised in a very “extreme” environment. I love my family, but they are very prone to Religion-bashing {other than their own} and I, by contrast, have a strong value of Religious Tolerance.

I’m just very confused and maybe broken-hearted that it is without their blessing that I pursue this … and also, maybe a bit scared that I will burn in the embers of Hell for doing this {but I don’t really think I believe in the Biblical Hell as it’s been presented to me}.

Alright - I’m done rambling. Just being very honest at this point, and wondering if there is any wisdom out there for me.

~Madeline[/QUOTE]

I was thrown out of a 12 step online group since they ere strict Christians and did not approve of yoga even hough I brought it up for exercise only.

Here is my history with religion…

I am not an atheist, I’m an agnostic. Although I’d rate myself about 85% atheist in by beliefs about Yahweh. Both my parents and their families are all Catholics.

My journey was long one. I was catholic for 50 years and am now a freethinking agnostic. The only reason I am not an atheist is I do not know if humans have a soul or not. Or if humans were some sort of alien drop off to this planet. And who knows, there may be some sort of intelligent design to it all…I just don’t know. But I do not believe in any gods.

http://www.godfinder.org/

It all started for me many years ago when an ex-Krishna / Wicca massage lady I used to go to told me that Jesus was not born on December 25 and the Christians adopted that day to steal it away from the pagans holiday. Then she told be it was the same with Halloween.

A few years later I found out that the gospels were not written by the apostles or men that even knew Jesus. Then I came across Freke’s book the Jesus Mysteries. I started to study the beginnings of Christianity and how the Nicene council was nothing more than a political convention to find out who had the best spin on Jesus.

Then talked with an ex-rabbi that turned into an atheist and guided me into more detailed study. Meeting that ex-rabbi was a major turning point in my life of religious beliefs. Then one day read in the news that the church abolishes limbo. This did not go well with the concept of the truth is that which does not change.

Then watched some shows on the history channel about religion that gave me more insight. I started to talk with atheists after being banned from all the Christian and Buddhist forums. (My study time with atheists gets limited from prejudice on their part as have been banned from most of the atheists forums as well such as evil bible dot com, ethical atheist, Internet infidels, X-Christians and others.)

So, after about 7 years of developing cracks in my Catholic foundations, I decided that I would make a change in my way of life and so evolved into an Agnostic Freethinker. I still use many tools from spiritual as well as religious sources.

I don’t hold prejudices like many hard core defiance based atheists do. If the tool can be tested for truth and does not require faith, then I make use of it. (I should say it does take ‘faith to test’ sometimes, but once you start the test, the need for faith evaporates.)

...also, maybe a bit scared that I will burn in the embers of Hell for doing this {but I don't really think I believe in the Biblical Hell as it's been presented to me}.

The inability to understand as well as the need to understand says it all about man made religion.

Atheist have put more time in trying to understand than most theists.

Hermeneutics is a major problem with religious thought.

There is such debate and disagreement as to what the scriptures really mean and the consequences of a 'bad' interpretation will mean everlasting torture and pain in hell? When deciphering code and hidden meanings becomes a life or death proposition, one has to wonder about a God that supposedly put his name on such a muddled up document. I can also tell you that destroying another being and causing them 'pain and torturing for eternity' will yield the provider of that pain and torture ZERO peace. This concept of pain, eternal hell and karma all smacks of the human touch of 'fear based' religious thought. We can see it in a quote from a Christian list member here:

JesusForgiveThem writes:

"Do you believe in eternal suffering? I surely would hate for anyone to consciously chose to spend an eternity in hell over some foolish pride that they can't get over ... as opposed to opening your heart to Jesus and see what he has to offer before writing Him off completely."

This discussion of eternal suffering that JesusForgiveThem brings up leads us to another problem. Which divinely inspired document does one follow as there are numerous books... all claiming to the word of God? And all these documents conflict with each other? It is with this overlap of these documents that are in agreement that I seek to find peace with. And anything that conflicts or cannot be substantiated and does not pass my empirical tests I have to let it go as 'man's ego' being injected into the equation. If God wishes to make things clear and without the need for hermeneutics then I am all ears. But until that time, we must each do the best we can and come to peace with this subject for ourselves.

But this problem of hermeneutics is not limited solely to the study of monotheism. It also encompasses the history of Buddhist thought as well. A favorite saying of the Mahayana is that of using 'skillful means' to achieve ones goal. Skillful Means = Put a Spin On It = LIE. Now, I am not just singling out the Mahayana as the bad boys. Lies and imperfections are widespread throughout all spiritual thought that was ever created my man. Man is imperfect and as such all his religious thought it also imperfect. But within these imperfections there are also many perfection's, as seldom is a thing all good or all bad.

With my own spiritual quest I have evolved into an agnostic freethinker. From the tradition of religion telling massive lies intermingled with some truths (yes the spiritual traditions of the world contain some truth) I have learned to not believe anything that requires faith and cannot be tested and applied as a universal law to the whole of society. I apply this form of thought to all my spiritual traditions I draw from whether it be monotheism to Buddhism or Taoism.

Now some of these spiritual truths are 'lesser truths' and subjective in nature. The application of such relative truth is more or less unimportant and up to the likes or dislikes of the individual. But the larger truths that are universal in nature are what I try to distinguish and then follow. If a concept is not 'crystal clear' and requires much speculation, I let it go. We can see what has happened in religious history when man gets too 'enthused' about interpretation. I do not wish to follow in those footsteps.

How do we know we have made an honest effort at this decoding business? For one, we do not fool with decoding, we just think and test for truth. Number two, we come to peace by giving it the 'hell test.' We work towards moral and ethical principles and develop what is called a 'good heart' which also aligns us magically with the empirical basics of religious thought in the various documents attributed to be the word of God. If we are successful at this quest and ethically and morally sound, when it comes time to die we can be at peace knowing we have done our best in this area. And if we find out that there is a hell and the entity 'claiming to be God' (for lack of a better name) has domed us to hell from 'not decoding it right' even with our best efforts, we can be at peace with knowing God is an unjust God and not a real God but an alien 'god bully' of sorts.

And when it comes to dying and the title 'loving God', we as imperfect humans that strive to develop a good heart will contain infinity more of that true 'Godly nature' that this 'alien god bully' claming to be God that seeks to torture those that have worked along spiritual lines to be good people. This is the 'hell test' in a nutshell - you are at peace with your actions and you are authentic as well about your life. When you align Right Actions + Authenticity this equals PEACE - Just as Socrates told his accusers when they condemned him to death. Socrates had no fear of evil in this life or after death:

"Wherefore, O judges, be of good cheer about death, and know this of a truth - that no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after death."

As I write this post, I am reminded of aliens in an old "Superman" movies that came to earth to tell us to 'bow down' to them or else? Yes, the aliens in the movie had great powers but they were not God...they were just gods to us humans. Seek truth, seek inner peace, seek the development of a good heart and put your best efforts into finding it and you too can be at peace with this subject. Of course, if one has never found inner peace all that I am telling you is unbelievable to you? Always remember...a wise mans knows what he says and a fool can only say what he knows. Learn to say what you know, and also know right from wrong actions and you can be at peace with your life or any life to come as well.

One last point. If you look at the name of the Christian I quoted above it is JesusForgiveThem it tells an interesting story in itself. If a God needs to be told by JesusForgiveThem or any other of us humans what to do, what is right or wrong and we can sway an omnipotent and perfect God just by begging...then that is one scary God. For we can see what has happened on earth when human demigods have been in power.

See:

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/burning.html

In order to deny God/their Divine Nature, atheists have to constantly remind themselves that God(his/her Divine nature) do exist and that they belief that God do exist. (In actual fact they are greater believers than most Christains, but they will never admit this). When I realised this truth about atheism years ago (I was then about 20) I turned back to my Christain roots again, discovered yoga strangely enough through the Liberal Catholic Church and as they say the rest is now history (mine in any case). :slight_smile:

This is a very good start. Just persevere in your objectivity.

The alien things … they are today’s materialist myth. We can’t accept that there are unseen powers ruling our lives, but we desperatly long for something to be there what is not the world we know.
Sadly, scientific thought is not as objective when dealing with the results of the experiments.

Did you read The Naked Ape, from Desdmond Morris ? Very good book … a very smart and plausible explanation of human culture form a zoologist’s point of view. It is based on the evolutionary theory. I recommend it as a great reading. Not that it would be true, but it is very believable, and it makes perfect sense. :slight_smile: What a smart professional can come up with. The average Joe never has a chance against such a man. I just make this as an example of how certain theories can make perfect sense, and yet, to be totally wrong.

I am sorry to say that I find the deph of thinking present in most scientific theories is lacking, and even more in the “scientific channels”. Television is simply lacking the necessary depth. It needs an audience and the general level of that audience makes it impossible to really become thorough.

I’d even say, these channels contribute to the spreading of superficial materialism, what is both good, and bad in the same time. Good because it opposes conservative traditions, and provides alternatives, bad because they are just another kind of propaganda, unfree from the accepted general sceintific “truths”, most of them not proved, but used as working hypotesises.